Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Trump Administration is “Banking on the Roberts Court to Do Absolutely Nothing”
On The Rick Smith Show, Meagan Hatcher-Mays Reiterates that SCOTUS is Not On Our Side
Washington, DC — As he nears the 100th day of his presidential term, Trump has proven time and again that he has no intention of complying with court orders. In fact, the slew of Supreme Court rulings over the past three months demonstrate that the White House believes it has the Supreme Court’s full support as Trump erodes the rule of law. This week, United for Democracy Senior Advisor Meagan Hatcher-Mays joined The Rick Smith Show to discuss how the Roberts Court has repeatedly enabled the president’s extremist agenda and rise to power.
KEY POINT: “You have Trump out here defying court orders, both lower court orders and Supreme Court orders — just kind of ignoring them and doing whatever he wants. I think he thinks he has permission to do it, and John Roberts is not making him think twice about that belief.”
Transcript Excerpt: The Rick Smith Show
April 23, 2025
Rick Smith:
I've asked Meagan Hatcher-Mays to come share some thoughts with us. She's a senior advisor over at United for Democracy. You can check out their website, unitedfordemocracy.us. Meagan, thanks for taking time for us.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays:
Of course thanks for having me.
Rick:
So what do you make of this? You got the attorney general saying, “Well, if you accuse the president of breaking the law after he breaks the law, well, we're coming after you.” What kind of weird, upside down, Orwellian utopia are we in?
Meagan:
Yeah, it's not very good. I don't like it. I don't want to be in it anymore. It is interesting, because she sort of implies that he has in fact committed a crime in that statement, you know, so it's very interesting.
But I think what they're banking on, just like you said, is they're just banking on the Roberts Court to do absolutely nothing about it. I think — well, I know — a year ago, the Roberts Court, in this majority opinion written by John Roberts and joined by the MAGA justices, and it's a case I think kind of fittingly called Trump v. The United States. In that case, the court said the president has broad immunity from criminal prosecution for breaking the law while president, as long as it's a part of his official duties. They basically gave Trump this gold-plated, “get out of jail free” card. And I think when you hear Pam Bondi and other people in Trump's administration make statements like that, it's a dare. They're basically saying, “who's going to check us? Who's going to stop us, because John Roberts said that this was cool. The only person who can rein us in is John Roberts, and we're daring him to do it. We're daring him to try.” And right now, John Roberts isn't showing much fight. I don't even think he is attempting to rein them in, really.
I mean, there were some signs of life over the weekend. The Supreme Court kind of was like, “wait a minute, you can't just cut the courts out of these deportation proceedings entirely.” And so they did start to show some concern very late at night on a Saturday, of course, when everyone was sleeping. So that's when John Roberts will stand up for democracy — when no one's paying attention.
Rick:
But otherwise he wakes up and goes, “Oh oh, that was just indigestion.”
Meagan:
Yeah exactly right. So, you know, otherwise it's like, is he going to do anything about this? I mean, you have Trump out here defying court orders, both lower court orders and Supreme Court orders, just kind of ignoring them and doing whatever he wants. I think he thinks he has permission to do it, and John Roberts is not making him think twice about that belief.
Rick:
It’s this weird thing for me, Meagan, because I thought Roberts would think about his legacy. I mean, he's still a youngish guy. But, you know, he's been on the court a while, he's shaped decisions, and look, I remember Mr. Balls and Strikes, you know. At least, that's what he claimed. I don't know what game he was playing, because he overturned a lot of precedents even though he said he believed in that decided law thing. But his legacy is on the line here. And do you really want to be the guy that goes, “yeah, I'm okay with a dictator. Fascism's cool.”
Meagan:
He's certainly getting us pretty close. I think right now, I think he feels like, “Look, I've written rulings that are vague enough, that have big enough loopholes, that I can still claim that Donald Trump is in compliance with what I have said to do.”
So in the Abrego Garcia ruling, Roberts writes, the Trump administration should do what they can to let the courts know how they're going to bring about the return of Abrego Garcia from El Salvador. And the Department of Justice has said, well, there's nothing we can share about how we're going to do that. So if I'm John Roberts, I'm thinking, “Well, that counts. Now I don't have to make that final ruling.” I think right now, he's in a place where he is doing his level best to avoid having to answer that final question, which is, “What am I going to do about this constitutional crisis that we're in?” And that's what he's trying to avoid. And so, what we're seeing is a lot of very mealy mouthed and very vague rulings from his court, for the most part, that still give Trump quite a bit of leeway to comply, even though Abrego Garcia is still in El Salvador.
I would argue that these court orders are being defied and ignored. I think that's what puts us in this crisis. John Roberts just doesn't want to have to answer that final question. I think he's going to go down in history as a massive, massive coward because we are in the crisis. Somebody needs to do something about it. The court can in fact hold Trump and his administration officials in contempt. Lower court judges have already said that they think that there is probable cause to hold some of them in contempt for the way that they've behaved. And John Roberts needs to put up or shut up, and right now he's shutting up.
Listen to the full episode here.
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About United for Democracy
United for Democracy is a diverse and growing coalition of more than 100 grassroots organizations, labor unions, and advocates for reproductive rights, gun violence prevention, the environment, workers rights and more, all representing tens of millions of Americans. The new nationwide campaign launched to educate Americans about the impact today’s Supreme Court is having on their lives, freedoms, and democracy — and call on Congress to rein in its unchecked powers.